Outkast’s Outcast.
written by JusHH
written by JusHH
My man 4 Bars is going to love me and hate me at the same time for this post…
I was listening to Andre 3000’s verse on “The Art of Storytellin’ Pt. 4” on DJ Drama’s album, you know the verse:
So I’m watchin’ her fine ass/ walk to my bedroom/ and thought to myself/ that’s the shape of things to come…
Yeah that verse.
Every time that song comes through my headphones, I have a “fanatic” moment. Then I realized that after the 50th time hearing the song, I only heard Big Boi’s verse a few times and wouldn’t recognize it if you played it for me right now. Next I realized that I’ve only listened to Big Boi’s verse on “Royal Flush” so many times because I was waiting for Dre to come on and rip it up.
Now don’t get me wrong. I like Big Boi, I think he’s dope and has put out quality music for like 15 years.
But he can’t hold a candle to Three Stacks.
I’m now convinced that Andre Ben is one of the greatest to pick up a mic.
The problem is he’ll never, ever be considered a candidate for G.O.A.T. status because he’s in a group.
If you check most peoples Top 5 or Top 10 lists, you’ll be hard pressed to find a member of a group on that list. There’s a few reasons why. 1) As a group member you are “limited” to a verse or two on each song and 2) You can’t put out that “classic” album that people can refer to when defending your G.O.A.T. status. I think that was why for so long, 3000 flew under the radar for me because I always associated him as part of a group first. But when he technically went “solo” and his Love Below album completely carried its weaker Speakerboxx counterpart, my eyes opened up.
When I got that first “Ah ha” moment, I noticed that all my favorite Outkast verses, all of them, came from Three Stacks. I remember when I had the Aquemini album; I was upset that Dre didn’t have more rhymes. And since he’s gone solo, Dre has decided to guest appear on few songs and did more with those verses than most rappers did on their entire albums. I can’t tell you how many songs I have on my computer just because he’s on it. “Walk it Out (remix)” are you serious? That’s the only way DJ Unk is making my collection.
So before he got a chance to “CC’d every girl that he see see ‘round town”, I said to myself, dude is one of the best. And if back in 1994, Andre Benjamin decided to pick up the microphone and spit three verses instead of one; his spot at the top would be a lock.
Again, I’m not saying that Big Boi can’t rap. Most of his verses are dope; his performance on “Royal Flush” and what I could remember from “The Art Pt. 4” was solid. Daddy Fat Sacks being a talented emcee isn’t in question. That fact however, really speaks to just how damn good his partner is. And I wonder with all the G.O.A.T. talk beginning to surround Dre if in the back of his mind, he ever wonders what it would have been like had he been on his own from the start. Or maybe he’s considering a fresh start as an “old” new solo act and is willing to indirectly tell Big Boi, “you are the weakest link…”
Good-Bye.
14 comments:
wow, i'm almost offended. While I won't argue that Dre is clearly the better rapper, i dont think the gap is as large as you state. A big part of Dre's appeal is that he is a much better 'artist' than big, but if we're talkin straight MC, it's closer than people state. Personally, and Jus you've said this as well, or maybe it was Kyle, but Big's verse may be better than Dre's, go back and listen, and the ending of his verse on art of story telling "now that's love in ya mouth now we're affiliates, so dont gimme the gangsta grillz, no drama it makes no sense, i got a mean ass backhand and a CANNON that dont miss BEEIIITCH" and i dont know if y'all have ever heard kilo ali's "love in ya mouth" that he was referencing but i mean, the whole shit is genius, this is lengthy as shit, but i think ur wrong that Dre is THAT much better than big as a rapper. And go back and listen to speakerboxx again, again, i think you let Dre's range overshadow the fact that Big is an awesome rapper and they're BOTh in my top 5, period, face, hov, and pac, are the other 3
What's cooler than being cool? Yeah, this post was that. Took some major gonads, though.
I will agree with Anonymous here. 2 things:
1) "Pass gas, slow it down to a screeching halt
Impeach the President cuz he don't think before he talk
Iraq, got that; now he gunning for Iran
North Korea got that shit that make LA look like Japan
Our land, nah man, more like the +Caribbean+"
Big Boi - "Royal Flush"
Insane.
2) His is easily the srongest verse on "Int'l Player's Anthem" 'Eeny, meeny decisions./with precision I pick or/make my selection on who I choose to be with/girl don't touch my protection/I know you want it to slip but/slipping is something i don't do...
I think that the distinction has more to do with lyrical style and content than anything else. Big Boi tends to be more mainstream while 3 stacks usually opts for a more poetic approach.
Listen to
This was one of the hardest posts that I had to write ever. It was tough to really express how much better I think Dre is without trying to take away from Big Boi.
As good as Big Boi is, I don't think its close. I never did and I do wonder what his status would have been if he was a solo artist from jump. This is the best analogy that i can come up with. Pippen is a Hall of Famer, but even he isn't in MJ's league.
I could have punked out and not done the post... but that wouldn't be very PTM now wouldn't it?
Sorry Anonymous Bars. My bad.
hahahaha, the thing didnt have my name saved so i could only post as anonymous (like i will here) but i dont mind you posting it, that's the beauty of america, a mf can be wrong but he can shout his wrong ass shit from the mountain tops. The fact is I was gonna make a similar analogy with kobe and lebron, but that woulda led to a hoops debate, which would lead you to say some more inaccurate shit. But I think the Pip MJ one is somewhat accurate, but only because without Pip, Jordan isnt who he is, not saying he's still not a hall of famer, but not a champion 6 times over. It's funny cause i was talking about how Dre is the more abstract of the two, but his lyrics are somewhat simplistic at times, but still so potent. Where Big Boi actually drops a TON of shit in his verses that is often lost on his rapid fire flow or the power of the track but he's ALWAYS spittin. Agree to disagree i guess :)
"wrong ass s**t from a mountaintop huh?"
haha... you my nig Bars. Always taking a shot at a brother.
And since we're only disagreeing on the size of the talent gap...
Agree to disagree.
Church.
I'm sorry Anonymous....I will have to side with JusHH on this one. Dre's definitely on a different level than Big Boi. Big is a solid MC, but if you look at Outkast's body of work in terms of their own albums and appearances (Goodie MOB and Dungeon Family) Dre has clearly carried the duo. For me it has less to do with his (post-Aquemeni artistic range) and more to do with what he does with metaphors, vocabulary, his flow, and where he takes the listener with his imagination. Dre is one of the few artists that makes other artists' verses forgettable. The MJ analogy is a good one, but lets stick to the same topic. I'll give you another analogy...its kind of like the debate between Mos and Talib...most people are gonna go with Mos because how he delivers a verse. Not to take anything from Kweli, because he's a great MC (and more prolific than Mos at that), but Mos brings more to the table. For me, the verses that Dre has put out on mixtapes and special appearances over the last couple of years has cemented his place as a top ten/five MC, because he kind of got away from rapping. So for him to come and continue to spit some ridiculous verses, just shows that his "Bret Farving" analogy is right on point.
Professor, I hear where you're coming from, I think the Talib and Mos analogy is GREAT, but I think we need to agree to disagree because I feel like talib is the superior rapper yet Mos is a better 'artist', and I think you alluded to the same thing when you said that he brings "more to the table" when talking about Mos and Dre. The fact is, Big has NEVER put out a wack verse (neither has Dre) and Big Boi actually does a lot of guest work on songs that dont get radio play (Youngbloodz "85", Kilo Ali "Love In Ya Mouth") yet when he and Dre are on a record, whatever it is, I've never EVER sat back and been like "yo, Dre KILLED big on that verse". But yeah, agree to disagree with you too cause I've got songs on my ipod now off the Goodie Mob albums and the Dungeon Fam album solely cause Sir Lucious Left Foot, aka The Savannah Chitlin Pimp is on there (Dungeon Fam "Follow The Light" and/or "White Guts") preciate the analogy though, that shit was on point, but further helped me prove mine :)
Anonymous, we will definitely agree to disagree. You are correct in saying that Big has never dropped a wack verse. However, Dre may not necessarily KILL Big on a track, but there are many a songs where his verses are definitely more memorable. While Big Boi takes you on the spaceship, Dre is the one that actually takes us out of this world. Just listen to "E.T." and "Black Ice" as just a couple of pieces of evidence. But lets call a truce...agree to disagree. Both are great MCs in their own write.
Better late than never.
I applaud Jushh for this bold post.
I think Dre takes us to another level, however I don't think the gap is as large as some of us think it is.
I LOVE PTM!!!!
to that first post:
don't be offended. the gap is that big. meaning big boi is an elite rapper, and andre is out of this world insane. he bodied big boi on his own track, "royal flush." he has so many bars on that song, i don't even know if it's big boi's song anymore. big boi shouldn't even put it on his album. he should give it to 3 stacks.
i'm just saying though. and i fuck with this blog now. yzr.
DCtoBC... Welcome.
Has anybody noticed that as of late Andre has 1000 bars per song? Yes, he gets mad props for keeping us interested that long, but I'm pretty sure having that much time to develop a full thought doesn't hurt.
As for the gap, it's there, but it's more lateral as opposed to one MC way over another. Dre is way out the box. Big Boi is mostly in the box, but he does his thing in that box. Dre does his thing a lil' better outside the box.
listened to royal flush again this morn, dre def has a great verse and probably 3 times as many bars as Big, but again, Big's verse was hot as shit, touched on everything he needed to, politics, social commentary, and a lil bit of pimp/thug shit, my man who said that they are different on a lateral level, that's the best way to put it. Again, if you gotta rank one as the better of the two, its clearly Dre, but not by a huge margin, chuuch.
Anonymous Bars
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