Video Hoes - “JUST CAUSE SHE DANCES GO GO”
written by 4bars
written by 4bars
Aight, so last week it was strictly about nostalgia and tig ole bitties but this week I’m back on my W.E.B. Dubois, “we need to do better” ish. The same women that I stayed up late night to see shake what they mamas gave em, I'ma be critical of em for just a few paragraphs, walk wit me…
Everybody saw ‘Player’s Club’ right? Lisa Raye, Ice Cube (YAYAYEEE!!), and my favorite character by far, Dollar Bill. Ok, now in case you don’t remember, the plot was about Lisa Raye’s character stripping to put herself through school and to take care of her son. Now this was based on a true story(s) of young women who actually go through this and there was also a Juvenile video a while back where the main character was stripping to put herself through school, my question is, how many of ya’ll really believe that all these women stripping are doing it to further their education? Do these “video hoes” really think that showing all their nakedness is gonna land them an acting career? Seriously, who is telling our women this stuff is ok? I mean I know its fast money but I gotta believe that at the end of the day you have to feel some kind of way about earning your money by objectifying yourself to strangers. Don’t get it twisted, I’m not judging cause I’ve been in clubs where there were strippers that I SO wish weren’t strippers cause I would’ve to take them home and love em forever (I sound like a Save-a-ho don’t I?). What I am saying is that I think it has become too socially acceptable of a career for young women with more going for them than just their bodies.
I have a little sister and she’s 21 and she grew up and still lives in “the hood” and trying to find a way to pay for school, but I’m pretty sure that stripping or pursuing her “acting career” via video hoeing has not crossed her mind. She grew up with no dad, etc; all the pitfalls that often lead to young women going down this path, she dealt with, but never thought “hmm, I need some money, I wonder if Harlem Nights is still hiring”. I guess I’m more sad than anything because I look at the way that our people are portrayed in general in most rap videos and I mean the “thug” “hoe” “hard” image is what sells these days and my question is why?
A gentleman wrote an article recently examining this question, take a gander and let me know what y’all think. (as a side note, this dude is what I like to call a tad “siddity”, he uses some words that one rarely uses in the English language, haha, does anybody know what ‘opprobrium’ is?)
Washington Post Article
22 comments:
I understand that sometimes we like, even celebrate, things that we know we shouldn't because they are inappropriate or counterproductive. But you CANNOT have it both ways. Last week you opened up the locker room talk about how much you miss BET Uncut and this week you show opprobrium for the same women in those videos. If you and so many others watched them and liked them then why would these women stop and think that maybe it's not the best route? I have a little sister too. She's 21 and trying to figure out how to get money for school. Stripping never crossed her mind and if it did I would kick some sense into her brain. Cuz I do have MY judgements about it (not the women who do it, just the "industry" of it). And I don't necessarily object to women using their looks as an asset, even if it's their naked bodies, but as long as it's in a respectable manner.
In terms of the article, I agree with both the author and your opinion that "we need to do better." Cuz we do. But I don't agree that hip hop culture is black street culture. Hip hop culture is HIP HOP culture. Yes it is dominated by black people but people need to see the separation. People need to stop boxing black culture just so they can figure it out. It's complicated, we're complicated. Its just that right now hip hip is so prevalent and so easily accessible its like that's all people think when they think of black success (that and basketball).
I read last week's article about BET Uncut and even though I don't miss it I didn't see anything wrong with people reminiscing on whatever they liked about it. But to turn around and admonish the same women that you "missed" last week is hypocritical. You need to check yourself.
I dig what you're saying, G...but I can't help but think that Bars here is kind of representing the struggle within the minds of most men, specifically the men who are both intoxicated and a little saddedned by these women. While his piece on 'Uncut' does make references to his love of the "video girl," and this one works to admonish them, in the back of my mind, I can't help but wonder if we all think like this to come extent. Don't we both love ball players for their excellence on the court and dislike them for the lack of maturity that many of them show due to the exorbitant numbers in their bank accounts?
What we need to do, if we want to do better, is acknowledge the women who make the video modeling business a serious enterprise by not just limiting themselves to hip-hop videos and KING and SMOOTH magazines.
Thank you for once again lighting a fire under us all, PTM...
Well you know I love PTM so anytime anything is said that ignites a fire in me I'm gonna share the heat.
I feel what you're saying but your example of the basketball player isn't comparable. You're talking about liking them for their skill but disliking them for something else. In the case of the women, its liking AND disliking them for the same thing. Which is human. Most of us have ambivalent feelings about these sorts of things. But you gotta be critical of yourself too when you're going to be critical of them when you contribute and encourage the behavior by watching and hailing it. And we ALL do it, sh-- I watched the first two seasons of Flavor of Love before I checked myself. But in the interest of moving forward we really do need to just stop talking about it (even if we can't help but be a little intoxicated by it) and giving it more press. It's about a message it sends to women. Do you think it's sexy or don't you? And it's not just young women out there, its women in general. Cuz a lot of misguided individuals get their self worth from what others deem desirable and the mixed message doesn't help.
And I'm not hatin on Four Bars at all, cuz like I said we're all human and it's natural to think on both sides of the coin. I'm just saying check what you put out there if you don't wanna be misunderstood.
And you are right, while we talk about the "video hos" we do need to give props to the women who actually did use the videos as a catalyst for their career in front of the camera with their clothes on, Melissa Ford went on to become a host, etc.
I'm going to have to co-sign with Mr. Turner. There's one part of us that celebrates the video girl (tell me that girl from Big Boi's I Like the Way You Move video never made you point at your TV screen or start a convo w/ a nearby homey). Then there's that part of us that says, "Thank God I'm not related to her." I can't call it, man. However, to play devil's advocate, what's the difference between a "video girl" and a model? Models get where they are because of hustle and their looks. Depending on the shoot, clothes they have to where, commercial or whatever, they might be nude (or close to it), leaning on a guy, and/or posing in awfully provocative positions. And in most cases they're not trying to flip modeling into some other career. What's the difference between that and a video girl?
Bottom line, any industry where your success is completely dependent on physical and/or superficial traits, things that you are given because of genetic predispositions or the like, is going to be open to both criticism and praise when it becomes mainstream...No matter how long it goes on, as long as it's marketable and profitable, it probably won't change. Thusly, we are left to forever bounce back and forth between abhorrence and captivation...
the difference between video girls and models is simple: $$$, video girls rarely get paid, its simply face time, models can earn millions.
well, the reason i brought up the model - video girl comparison is because every model isn't Tyra, Naomi, Cindy Crawford (sorry for the throwback names, my model knowledge is sorely lacking). Yeah, top models - no pun intended - make millions, but there aren't that many on top. I'm pretty sure the higher paid video girls can afford awfully nice things. I just notice that models are held in fairly high regard while video girls are frowned upon for doing a variation of the same thing.
nah nah, models at all levels make SOME money, some more than others, but video girls do not pull in dough, not from bein in videos at least, there is no gainful income for video girls from appearing in videos. There was a documentary on it a while back and it was clearly stated that the women that appear in these videos are only paid in face time and exposure, that's it.
word? deep. sad. Today Stuart, you have saved me for entering the world of video hoing. I can't just dance for dollars when there are no dollars involved. lol.
Thanks for the info, though. I thought at least some of 'em were making decent dough. Geez.
For those who want to try and find the documentary that Stuart is referring to, this link is here:
http://unrworld.com/dvds/hiphopvideogirls.html
Here's my whole take, you are who you are and what you do in this world has implications. I enjoy strip clubs from time to time but i'm not gonna exactly take one of those girls home to my mother. I don't have a bunch of respect for her but it doesn't mean that I can't be entertained either.
I also am not one of these people who think people "shouldn't" be strippers because they can "do better" cuz I don't. It's not illegal and if you're good, you can make a good living but if you take your clothes off for strangers then you have to expect the criticism. So women who choose to be strippers because they wanna do it, i'm cool with that.
I do have the problem with the "well, i'm doing it to pay for school, so don't look at me like that" attitude the same way i have a problem with the "well, i sell rocks to feed my kids attitude that i've heard plenty of dudes say. You are what you are in this world. There's plenty of women who paid their way from school with their clothes on, they simply felt that the fast money wasn't worth compromising their ideals.
for so called "video hoes", same deal just substitute them every time i wrote "stripper".
It saddens me that the society we live in condones this type of behavior among young women today. There are a lot of people that go through the struggle and don’t subject themselves or others to public exploitation of what used to be thought of as ones “temple”. I have a five year old niece and I feel terrible that she is exposed to half of the things she watches on television. When she happens to flip to the music video channel, all she sees is sex, drugs and alcohol (for the most part). Unless her family members show her otherwise, she will grow up thinking life is supposed to be like what she sees on television. Unless we teach the future generations, the youth of today, about how to progress in life while holding fast to important values, moral and ethical conduct, they (and we) are doomed.
At the end of the day, these young women have options; unfortunately, some of them don’t know options exist.
JusHH said "I don't have a bunch of respect for her but it doesn't mean that I can't be entertained either." Wow. Interesting.
Lust and respect should never be confused...and that's what it is with a lot of the people who put these women in videos and the women who WANT to be in these videos...they're playing to one of our basest instincts...
This is all about DUALITY. We all have the side of us that knows right or wrong, or at least what WE believe is right or wrong. But there is a side that is not as clear to some people, because WE DON'T ALL THINK THE SAME. Some of you may judge a stripper and then go to the strip club and "SUPPORT" her hustle financially by just being there and throwing her that dollar. But then you come back and say I would NEVER take her home to my mom. WHY? WHAT IS THAT?
Also, Im not going to get on 4bars for having multiple sides to him. I MISS BET UNCUT. But I also think women should change the game up and make it ok, to stop shaking your ass in the camera. WHEN I CAN RECOGNIZE A FEMALE BY JUST LOOKING AT HER ASS, BUFFY, there is a problem. I dont really know what her face looks like. Some chicks get in these videos and YOU NEVER SEE THEIR FACE.
No one is all about one thing. We have different sides to us, HIP HOP, and life. Thats like me coming at YOU, THE G, FOR WATCHING THE COONING THAT GOES DOWN ON FLAVOR OF LOVE. Who am I to judge you for finding that entertaining? Yea you caught yourself, but you were CAUGHT UP for a minute.
I appreciate the fact that one week I can read a piece on the state of hip-hop and how we need to do better, and the next have a bit of fun and discuss HOW WE MISS OLD SHOWS that reflect our old mentality. We can also recognize that LIKE HIP HOP, we have grown and changed over the years.
G, I would never knock you for watching Flavor of Love. I wasn't really a religious watcher until I realized I know one of the girls on this season. Blew my mind that they were real people.
Now, we gotta go ahead and dig a little deeper. What is it that makes these girls want to be in these videos for little to no money? Why are so many girls auditioning for the Plies reality show (I'll post a link when it doesn't risk me getting fired @ work)? And Flavor Flav...really?!?? I mean, like jushh said, I guess you can do what you do, but don't expect that criticism to miss you.
KStorm, I was just curious as to your issue w/ the whole, "I'll watch you dance but won't take you home to mama" thing.
Why are there so many women trying to be on these shows? I think they really try to use it to catapult the "career" they are shooting for and its sad. They do anything on these shows to stand out from the crowd for some fame? Everybody wans that limelight thats exactly what lupe's "superstar" was about. Listen to the 2nd verse again.
I think they do for different reasons. Some want the attention. Some actually get opportunities out of it for bigger and better things. And for the strippers, I think some of them REALLY and truly have no other choice. ITS QUICK EASY MONEY. Like someone mentioned, DRUG DEALERS sell for quick easy money. All they are worried about is taking care of themselves and theirs. Im not saying its right, but thats what it is.
I have an issue with it, because why discriminate against the strippers/ video girls. If you are against the whole thing, why support it at all? Why watch the videos with chicks who show their ass, why go to the strip club and "SUPPORT THEM BY BEING THERE" but then say they are not good enough for this or that? They are not your sister or mother or aunt, but they are someone else's. If its a personal reason then cool, but too many guys are quick to pull the, ILL NEVER BRING HER HOME card, but perpetuate the situation. Its a part of life, but its just one of those uneasy issues/ topics.
JAY-Z and B.I.G WERE ALL EX DRUG DEALERS. Eve used to strip. I don't see anyone on pastthemargin or the US or around the world, saying "IM NOT GOING TO BUY THEIR MUSIC/ LISTEN TO THEIR MUSIC BECAUSE THEY USED TO SELL DRUGS." Whats good with that?
Though I wouldn’t respect the mentality of a young, impressionable girl in awe of and drawn to the ‘attention’ received by flaunting her ‘goodies’, especially when involved in a music genre that, at least in the commercial world of hip-hop, places hedonistic materialism and ego at a top priority in lyrical content, and most definitely in the music videos created to accompany the songs that make an ode to pussy, piff, and patron, I see rap music (it’s rap, not necessarily hip hop) as presenting pre-existing sexism that is prevalent not only in our generation as a whole, but also in the lifestyle propagated in the ‘hood’ (I can only personally speak for the barrios of LA, but I’m expanding the assumption to hoods nation-wide) to the public. Rap music videos do not cause women to be hoes, women already have the inner desire to be accepted, loved, admired, etc but when raised in a culture that teaches men to think with their heads (not their central nervous system, mind you), they feel that in order fulfill a sense of belonging, women conform to prevalent sexist attitudes. There are six million ways to get rich (or die trying), but jiggling your ass so that the fat undulates at a frequency that creates action potentials in the pelvic splanchnic nerves of horny men is as old as the existence of our species (hell, even before that). It’s easier to widen your legs than to broaden your horizons, and men are not as supportive to women in the latter as much as they are for the former. But men are not the only ones to blame (that’s for sure), as women who use their ‘assets’ instead of their acumen are not only lowering that ‘glass ceiling’ which women have been pushing up since the days of Mary Wollenscraft, the suffragettes, and 60s bra-burning, but are encaging themselves in go-go cages for the entertainment of stupid men who themselves aren’t going anywhere in life or making any positive impact (even if just a dent or a slight scratch) on the progress of humankind or the world. I have a lot more to say, and I really didn’t say much above. In essence, I haven’t said anything profound at all. Perhaps that could be the problem. The issue at hand isn’t even that complex, we’re just too blinded by pussy to see how simple it is. So hoes, stop trying to jump into bed, and read a book instead.
K Storm - read my post again. I'm not against strippers or strip clubs. I've gone to plenty. I'm not even against a woman's decision to become a stripper. If that's what she wants to do to earn a living, then fine. However, just because I enjoy a strip club that doesn't mean that I unnecessarily want to bring her into my personal life.
I don't want a woman who strips as my girlfriend most likely for the same reasons why you probably will never strip. this doesn't mean that a stripper is a bad person - i don't know any of these women. However, I cannot see myself on a personal level with a woman who feels necessary to take their clothes off and give lap dances to strange men.
With Hov and BIG, i'm not supporting them selling drugs. I'm buying albums not crack from them so i don't really see the correlation.
I read it. I got u. I was trying to point out that we can't judge these people for one part of their life. What they do/ did doesn't define them completely. That's the correlation. That's why its ok to buy an ex drug dealers CD and not feel n e type of way. But I feel yall...
Ok so I know this conversation started on March 7 but as I watched a commercial for Sucker Free Sunday last night a thought hit me and this conversation entered my mind. While I'm not siding with the video girl or the stripper or justifying what they do (because yes I think it is important to make a very careful decision about how you make your money) I think I just got a little better understanding of it than I had before. I think the whole "I'm doing it to earn money for school," isn't supposed to be a copp out. If anything it's an admission that they even think what they're doing is callous and undignified. But they're also saying it's just a means to an end. They say it to let people know that they don't plan on doing it all their lives so they aren't invested. It's an excuse. While many don't see it as a good excuse, it's supposed to illustrate to the world (in the mind of the girl at least) that she has a brain and once she feels like she has the opportunity to use it she will. I feel bad for some of the women in these situations for the simple fact that they didn't see other choices. I know many of them just do it cuz they DON'T have a brain in their head, or at least they see no point in using it. But to answer four bars, YES I do believe some of these women do it to further their education. I also think part of the solution is to change the formula of rap videos (not the only solution but one). Let's start changing the image of women in these videos and give them more choices. And I love Playas Club by the way but not cuz of the stripping scenes, but because of the message (and it was just a plain old good movie).
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